NH Homesteader
Sustainability Master
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I have always liked maremmas and you're giving me even more reasons to like them!
Livestock Guardian Dogs
- Thread starter
- #16
Beekissed
Mountain Sage
That's good to know about Ben's traits...I was assuming it was from the Anatolian side he was getting that eagerness to learn and follow Jake's lead on things and his gentleness towards the chickens and cats.
His GP side of the mix is now wearing two receivers on his collar to increase his obedience to the line.
One has a max level of 4 and the other one has a max level of 6 and they are both set on the max. He was using the fear of loud noises as an excuse to break the boundary and go walkabout, so I increased the deterrent levels and have been training him on loud noises.
Yesterday I put his thundershirt on and had my son shoot different calibers of gun there in the yard so I could monitor his reactions. They were significantly less than they have been in the past...he was clearly not enjoying the loud noise, which is normal, but he wasn't running, pacing, whining or barking and didn't have a distressed demeanor at all, so that was progress.
Thunderstorms now are not a problem for him...we've had so many of those lately that he no longer even has to wear his thundershirt but still remains calm during the worst lightning and thunder. He's even been sleeping through them now!
His GP side of the mix is now wearing two receivers on his collar to increase his obedience to the line.
One has a max level of 4 and the other one has a max level of 6 and they are both set on the max. He was using the fear of loud noises as an excuse to break the boundary and go walkabout, so I increased the deterrent levels and have been training him on loud noises. Yesterday I put his thundershirt on and had my son shoot different calibers of gun there in the yard so I could monitor his reactions. They were significantly less than they have been in the past...he was clearly not enjoying the loud noise, which is normal, but he wasn't running, pacing, whining or barking and didn't have a distressed demeanor at all, so that was progress.
Thunderstorms now are not a problem for him...we've had so many of those lately that he no longer even has to wear his thundershirt but still remains calm during the worst lightning and thunder. He's even been sleeping through them now!
goatgurl
Almost Self-Reliant
emma goes in the house when we are shooting but JJ stays with me. emma also lays beside me during thunder storms while JJ sleeps or if there is a really big crack she'll look over at me like are we ok mom? emma never use to be afraid of guns or storms until my psudos-SIL fired a couple of flash bangs up here and it scared the stuffings out of everything on the hill. ben and his boing thru a line reminds me of a little arab mare that I use to have. I had 3 strands of electric wire around my garden and I would go to work and when I came home after 12 hours she would be "trapped" in the garden. she wanted the veggies bad enough to go thru the fence but didn't want her freedom bad enough to come back out. was a good thing that I really loved her 'cause I could shot her a couple of times I was so mad.
I sure hope ben gets over that walkabout thing. he is at the right age to want to explore and expand his territory. I don't remember, does he still have all his boy parts?
I sure hope ben gets over that walkabout thing. he is at the right age to want to explore and expand his territory. I don't remember, does he still have all his boy parts?
baymule
Sustainability Master
Bee, I don't think neutering has a thing to do with fear of loud noises. Both of my GP's are intact and are shivering, drooling blobs of white fur when there is a thunderstorm or fireworks.
frustratedearthmother
Sustainability Master
I've heard that too. Hopefully, like with Ben, it was just a 'phase' he went through.
goatgurl
Almost Self-Reliant
forgot to answer your question about lgd's and birds of prey. I know you asked bay but i'm a busy body so I thought i'd throw my 2 cents in. yes my Anatolians all barked and chased big birds away from the barnyard and the chickens. any thing bigger than a bluejay was fair game. now JJ has taken up the torch and chases them away. she even keeps the blue heron away from my pond. and she isn't sure she trusts those jays much either. I believe ben was after the hawk because he knew it was up to no good. atta boy ben.
- Thread starter
- #30
Beekissed
Mountain Sage
I was working in the garden until almost too dark to see my way when I heard a single coyote yelp in the field next to us..probably about a 100 yds out. Ben jumped up and gave one bark back, then went back to lie down. I guess that's all they needed to know...coyote is there, Ben is here...now we both know. 
I love that about these two dogs of mine....they don't waste a lot of words.
I love that about these two dogs of mine....they don't waste a lot of words.
- Thread starter
- #31
Beekissed
Mountain Sage
One thing I see over and over on forums and YT vids on training these dogs is the information that the dogs are "independent thinkers" and are difficult to train due to this, that some things we shouldn't even attempt to train them on due to this and that we can't really expect much obedience due to this. I was even told this when I got Ben...not to expect that a LGD would train to obedience training and not to expect him to guard chickens effectively as he wouldn't "bond" with them.
What a horrible thing to pass along...it's like some kind of bad rural myth. Nothing could be further from the truth, IME. Not only is it VERY important to train these powerful dogs to live on small homesteads but it's not that hard to do at all. They are intelligent and eager to please, food motivated which makes them incredibly easy to motivate, and very quick to catch on to most things you want to teach.
Another thing I see passed along as gospel truth is that you shouldn't even expect these dogs to leave chickens alone until they are 2 yrs old or even older, as they don't "mature" until then and are still puppy enough to want to chase chickens. That leads people into not even trying to train these dogs until it's so difficult to do that it takes forever to break their already established bad habits. What's happening up until that age? Yep...he's been allowed to bark, chase, lunge at or otherwise pay undue attention to the chickens in a run without any firm correction for it as a pup.
What a load of bull pucky!!! Not only is it important to train them immediately on chickens when they arrive as pups but you can also teach them not to play with the chickens then too, just like you can teach them not to jump up on children or put their mouths on children~or adults, for that matter~ you can teach them that chickens are not to be herded, chased, barked at, lunged at or any other unwanted behavior towards the chickens....or any livestock, for that matter.
The only acceptable behavior around livestock is a calm behavior and that needs to be ingrained in a dog, be he a puppy or not. He needs to be taught there's a time and place for rough playing, but it's never around or with the livestock.
As with training children, the lessons learned earliest are those that stick the longest and best, so the earlier you can train your pup on chickens, lambs, kids, etc. the better. Establishing your rule over the dog comes first and often simultaneously with training on these things....three basic commands get taught the first week and thereafter~come, sit, leave it.
For the life of me, I can't understand folks who claim their dogs won't come to them when called...that's the most natural instinct of any dog, to come to the leader of the pack. If you have not established that leadership, then problems naturally ensue.
I wish folks would stop repeating it as gospel that these dogs can't be taught to behave as a pup, that they can't be taught to come to you when you want them to or leave it. It's just not true and it really sets people up to fail with these dogs right from the start....then you see these dogs in rescue situations because people couldn't keep them from killing chickens, killing the neighbor's ~or their own~dogs, couldn't stop them from running off when called, etc. because they didn't even try to train them until it was too late.
Most dogs are independent thinkers, as are we...but we can still be taught to obey. Many breeds have been bred for hundreds of years for a certain purpose or job, so what? That's like when people say you can't use a Lab to guard chickens because he's a bird dog and has a high prey drive....such baloney! They are incredibly easy to train to chickens and are among the best of the breeds that make great farm dogs.
When people fall for that hooey and drop their expectations for the dog is exactly the point when they get what they expect...a worthless(for the job) or troublesome animal.
What a horrible thing to pass along...it's like some kind of bad rural myth. Nothing could be further from the truth, IME. Not only is it VERY important to train these powerful dogs to live on small homesteads but it's not that hard to do at all. They are intelligent and eager to please, food motivated which makes them incredibly easy to motivate, and very quick to catch on to most things you want to teach.
Another thing I see passed along as gospel truth is that you shouldn't even expect these dogs to leave chickens alone until they are 2 yrs old or even older, as they don't "mature" until then and are still puppy enough to want to chase chickens. That leads people into not even trying to train these dogs until it's so difficult to do that it takes forever to break their already established bad habits. What's happening up until that age? Yep...he's been allowed to bark, chase, lunge at or otherwise pay undue attention to the chickens in a run without any firm correction for it as a pup.
What a load of bull pucky!!! Not only is it important to train them immediately on chickens when they arrive as pups but you can also teach them not to play with the chickens then too, just like you can teach them not to jump up on children or put their mouths on children~or adults, for that matter~ you can teach them that chickens are not to be herded, chased, barked at, lunged at or any other unwanted behavior towards the chickens....or any livestock, for that matter.
The only acceptable behavior around livestock is a calm behavior and that needs to be ingrained in a dog, be he a puppy or not. He needs to be taught there's a time and place for rough playing, but it's never around or with the livestock.
As with training children, the lessons learned earliest are those that stick the longest and best, so the earlier you can train your pup on chickens, lambs, kids, etc. the better. Establishing your rule over the dog comes first and often simultaneously with training on these things....three basic commands get taught the first week and thereafter~come, sit, leave it.
For the life of me, I can't understand folks who claim their dogs won't come to them when called...that's the most natural instinct of any dog, to come to the leader of the pack. If you have not established that leadership, then problems naturally ensue.
I wish folks would stop repeating it as gospel that these dogs can't be taught to behave as a pup, that they can't be taught to come to you when you want them to or leave it. It's just not true and it really sets people up to fail with these dogs right from the start....then you see these dogs in rescue situations because people couldn't keep them from killing chickens, killing the neighbor's ~or their own~dogs, couldn't stop them from running off when called, etc. because they didn't even try to train them until it was too late.
Most dogs are independent thinkers, as are we...but we can still be taught to obey. Many breeds have been bred for hundreds of years for a certain purpose or job, so what? That's like when people say you can't use a Lab to guard chickens because he's a bird dog and has a high prey drive....such baloney! They are incredibly easy to train to chickens and are among the best of the breeds that make great farm dogs.
When people fall for that hooey and drop their expectations for the dog is exactly the point when they get what they expect...a worthless(for the job) or troublesome animal.
- Thread starter
- #32
Beekissed
Mountain Sage
Was just watching a vid, yet another, on LGDs on YT wherein they stated that these dogs bark a lot and that's just something you have to put up with in these breeds. Somehow that doesn't hold true on my place, no matter the LGD that is here, as I ask them to change that propensity. There's necessary barking and unnecessary barking, just as with any dog, and that's something that needs to be addressed.
Yep, I train them to bark only when necessary. People then ask how I know when it's necessary and when it's not. That's probably because I've lived in these woods for most of my life, so I know the predator flow, I know the nature of the threat, I am outside at night and listen every evening to what's going on out there....most folks go in the house and night, the windows are shut, they watch TV or otherwise occupy themselves with no ear out for the subtle things going on out there on the land...they just hear the dogs barking and assume what they hear means that the dogs are doing their job and no one should interfere with that.
Learn your dogs, learn their barks, watch how they work in the day time and see what they bark at, for how long, and then use your own mind~yes, they tell you that these dogs actually KNOW more than you do, so you shouldn't try to change them~and determine if you think what he's barking at is a real threat. If not, teach him that. If so, let him roll on.
It's not controlling IF he barks, it's controlling how long and frequently he barks. A dog is going to bark at a perceived threat and that's good....but perceived is the word we want to examine. If you live in town and the dog is underworked~meaning he has no real predators to ward off~he will bark at every dog or human that passes by and that activity is going on day and night in a town. These dogs shouldn't be kept in town, they really will drive you crazy with barking, as the only "threats" are not true predators at all.
But, out on the little homestead? Big predators are not passing by that frequently~unless you live in Africa or deep in Alaska?~ especially if they know you have these dogs on the land.
The barks can be kept to a real threat vs. a perceived one. Deer? Not a threat...Ben can take a run at them and a woof if he likes, but he can't stand and bark them off the land. No purpose in it. I can tell, in the night, if Ben is barking at a deer vs. a coyote...if you can't tell that with your dogs, you can take the time to listen and observe more and find that out. A warning bark at a predator sounds vastly different than a casual, I see you and you need to leave bark at a harmless animal.
Give a verbal correction for the bored, repetitive barks you hear that are located in one spot...that's just a dog vocalizing into the night, no urgency in his call. It's just a steady woof, woof, woof, woof towards one direction. That means whatever was there is moving away and he just wants to talk about it longer...I don't allow those kinds of barks.
An urgent and sharp, WHOA-WHOA-WHOA!!!!!~3-5 notes of alarm, is an alarm bark and you'll hear that moving across the land, not normally in one spot...that's a dog chasing a predator presence away from the boundary of his land. He may stand there at the point of the smell/sighting and continue with the sharp, urgent bark until the predator has turned and is moving away, then that should stop. If it lapses into the repetitive, lazier bark, then you can expect him to stop barking....give him a correction if it continues for more than a matter of a few minutes.
I sleep a wonderful, peaceful sleep here with my windows open all night, because even when the dogs have to bark it's blessedly brief and business like in nature. It's not often because they are doing their jobs just by being out there and the local predators know they are there...they can smell them, see them and are aware.
Let's get it straight...their barking does not do their job, their presence and vigilance is doing the job. The predators do not need to hear them to know they are there, no more than your dogs need to hear the predators to know if they are there....it's a world of scent out there in the night. If barking was doing the job a person could put a chihuahua out there and be done with it...they bark incessantly and at every little thing and you could save on the feed bill tremendously.
Feel free to train your LGD dog to bark only when necessary and only then...it won't ruin him nor keep him from his job.
Yep, I train them to bark only when necessary. People then ask how I know when it's necessary and when it's not. That's probably because I've lived in these woods for most of my life, so I know the predator flow, I know the nature of the threat, I am outside at night and listen every evening to what's going on out there....most folks go in the house and night, the windows are shut, they watch TV or otherwise occupy themselves with no ear out for the subtle things going on out there on the land...they just hear the dogs barking and assume what they hear means that the dogs are doing their job and no one should interfere with that.
Learn your dogs, learn their barks, watch how they work in the day time and see what they bark at, for how long, and then use your own mind~yes, they tell you that these dogs actually KNOW more than you do, so you shouldn't try to change them
~and determine if you think what he's barking at is a real threat. If not, teach him that. If so, let him roll on. It's not controlling IF he barks, it's controlling how long and frequently he barks. A dog is going to bark at a perceived threat and that's good....but perceived is the word we want to examine. If you live in town and the dog is underworked~meaning he has no real predators to ward off~he will bark at every dog or human that passes by and that activity is going on day and night in a town. These dogs shouldn't be kept in town, they really will drive you crazy with barking, as the only "threats" are not true predators at all.
But, out on the little homestead? Big predators are not passing by that frequently~unless you live in Africa or deep in Alaska?~ especially if they know you have these dogs on the land.
The barks can be kept to a real threat vs. a perceived one. Deer? Not a threat...Ben can take a run at them and a woof if he likes, but he can't stand and bark them off the land. No purpose in it. I can tell, in the night, if Ben is barking at a deer vs. a coyote...if you can't tell that with your dogs, you can take the time to listen and observe more and find that out. A warning bark at a predator sounds vastly different than a casual, I see you and you need to leave bark at a harmless animal.
Give a verbal correction for the bored, repetitive barks you hear that are located in one spot...that's just a dog vocalizing into the night, no urgency in his call. It's just a steady woof, woof, woof, woof towards one direction. That means whatever was there is moving away and he just wants to talk about it longer...I don't allow those kinds of barks.
An urgent and sharp, WHOA-WHOA-WHOA!!!!!~3-5 notes of alarm, is an alarm bark and you'll hear that moving across the land, not normally in one spot...that's a dog chasing a predator presence away from the boundary of his land. He may stand there at the point of the smell/sighting and continue with the sharp, urgent bark until the predator has turned and is moving away, then that should stop. If it lapses into the repetitive, lazier bark, then you can expect him to stop barking....give him a correction if it continues for more than a matter of a few minutes.
I sleep a wonderful, peaceful sleep here with my windows open all night, because even when the dogs have to bark it's blessedly brief and business like in nature. It's not often because they are doing their jobs just by being out there and the local predators know they are there...they can smell them, see them and are aware.
Let's get it straight...their barking does not do their job, their presence and vigilance is doing the job. The predators do not need to hear them to know they are there, no more than your dogs need to hear the predators to know if they are there....it's a world of scent out there in the night. If barking was doing the job a person could put a chihuahua out there and be done with it...they bark incessantly and at every little thing and you could save on the feed bill tremendously.
Feel free to train your LGD dog to bark only when necessary and only then...it won't ruin him nor keep him from his job.
baymule
Sustainability Master
We have ours trained to a tap on the window. That only works if they are in the yard. if they are up by the road, nothing much works unless I want to walk out there and just like you, Bee, stand still and listen. I just stand there and Trip knows I'm there and appears out of the darkness with a goofy grin on his face. He gets a hug and that usually settles it. But that BOOF BOOF while laying in a hole, just because he can......tap the window and both of them look like they just got caught stealing a cookie.
Bee, well written and that is good training advice.
Bee, well written and that is good training advice.
