MsPony
Lovin' The Homestead
So WZ, you are saying, that Fruit Loops is actually NOT a healthy source of wjole grains??
Paleo diet
- Thread starter Blue Skys
- Start date
Wifezilla
Low-Carb Queen - RIP: 1963-2021
I think I will go out on that limb and say that Fruit Loops are not a good source of healthy whole grains 
As for the science on this, seeds, grains and legumes contain phytates.
"Just because you've switched from white flour to whole grains does not mean that you are getting all the nutritional value. In fact you may experience new problems with digestion. That is because whole grains contain phytic acid in the bran of the grain. Phytic acid combines with key minerals, especially calcium, magnesium, copper, iron, and zinc and prevents their absorption in the intestinal tract.
Soaking, fermenting, or sprouting the grain before cooking or baking will neutralize the phytic acid, releasing nutrients for absorption. This process allows enzymes, lactobacilli and other helpful organisms to not only neutralize the phytic acid, but also to break down complex starches, irritating tannins and difficult-to-digest proteins including gluten. For many, this may lessen their sensitivity or allergic reactions to particular grains. Everyone will benefit, nevertheless, from the release of nutrients and greater ease of digestion."
http://www.suegregg.com/about/c.htm
If you eat a diet that does not reduce the phytates, you get mineral and vitamin loss...
"Zinc, copper and magnesium absorption and retention from a high-fibre and high-phytate diet of conventional foods were investigated in 8 healthy subjects. Fractional absorption of the three minerals was estimated from fecal monitoring of zinc, copper and magnesium stable isotopes added to one day's diet. In addition, apparent absorption, retention and endogenous losses were estimated for the respective minerals based on fecal and urinary excretion over the last 16 days of 21 days constant intake. The diet contained 1 mmol phytic acid, 29 g dietary fiber, 140 mumol zinc, 13 mumol copper, and 9 mmol magnesium per 10 MJ. The absorption of zinc, copper and magnesium was 29 +/- 12% (x +/- SD) (48 +/- 20 mumol), 44 +/- 7% (8 +/- 1 mumol) and 46 +/- 6% (5 +/- 1 mmol), respectively. The retained amounts of minerals were -7 +/- 19 mumol, -5 +/- 4 mumol, and -3 +/- 1 mmol, respectively and the estimated endogenous intestinal losses were 40 +/- 20 mumol, 12 +/- 4 mumol and 3 +/- 1 mmol, respectively. In conclusion, the fractional absorption of zinc, copper and magnesium from the fibre-rich diet was not sufficient to cover intestinal and urinary losses of these elements, resulting in negative balances."
More....
"the issue of antinutrients in raw cereal grains is a very real issue. There are components in raw cereal grains which wreak absolute havoc with human health and well-being. The primary storage form of phosphorous in cereal grains is phytate, and phytates bind virtually all divalent ions, i.e., minerals for our purposes. Excessive consumption of whole-grain unleavened breads (50-60% of total calories) commonly results in rickets [Robertson 1981; Ewer 1950; Sly 1984; Ford 1972, 1977; MacAuliffe 1976; Hidiroglou 1980; Dagnelie 1990], retarded skeletal growth [Reinhold 1971; Halsted 1972; Sandstrom 1987; Golub 1996] including hypogonadal dwarfism, and iron-deficiency anemia (will provide the references upon request). The main lectin in wheat (wheat germ agglutinin) has catastrophic effects upon the gastrointestinal tract [Pusztai 1993a]. Additionally, the alkylrescorcinols of cereals influence prostanoid tone and induce a more inflammatory profile [Hengtrakul 1991], as well as depressing growth [Sedlet 1984].
Given the barriers to grain consumption that primitive hominids would have faced, who did not possess the more sophisticated technology only seen since about 15,000 years ago, optimal foraging theory, again, strongly suggests any consumption would have been at extremely minimal levels. Given also the lack of adaptation of the human gut to prevent the negative effects of their consumption which are only mitigated (and only partially) by such technology, it is extremely unlikely cereal grains were ever more than a very minute fraction of the human diet until very recent times."
http://www.beyondveg.com/cordain-l/grains-leg/grains-legumes-1a.shtml
As for the science on this, seeds, grains and legumes contain phytates.
"Just because you've switched from white flour to whole grains does not mean that you are getting all the nutritional value. In fact you may experience new problems with digestion. That is because whole grains contain phytic acid in the bran of the grain. Phytic acid combines with key minerals, especially calcium, magnesium, copper, iron, and zinc and prevents their absorption in the intestinal tract.
Soaking, fermenting, or sprouting the grain before cooking or baking will neutralize the phytic acid, releasing nutrients for absorption. This process allows enzymes, lactobacilli and other helpful organisms to not only neutralize the phytic acid, but also to break down complex starches, irritating tannins and difficult-to-digest proteins including gluten. For many, this may lessen their sensitivity or allergic reactions to particular grains. Everyone will benefit, nevertheless, from the release of nutrients and greater ease of digestion."
http://www.suegregg.com/about/c.htm
If you eat a diet that does not reduce the phytates, you get mineral and vitamin loss...
"Zinc, copper and magnesium absorption and retention from a high-fibre and high-phytate diet of conventional foods were investigated in 8 healthy subjects. Fractional absorption of the three minerals was estimated from fecal monitoring of zinc, copper and magnesium stable isotopes added to one day's diet. In addition, apparent absorption, retention and endogenous losses were estimated for the respective minerals based on fecal and urinary excretion over the last 16 days of 21 days constant intake. The diet contained 1 mmol phytic acid, 29 g dietary fiber, 140 mumol zinc, 13 mumol copper, and 9 mmol magnesium per 10 MJ. The absorption of zinc, copper and magnesium was 29 +/- 12% (x +/- SD) (48 +/- 20 mumol), 44 +/- 7% (8 +/- 1 mumol) and 46 +/- 6% (5 +/- 1 mmol), respectively. The retained amounts of minerals were -7 +/- 19 mumol, -5 +/- 4 mumol, and -3 +/- 1 mmol, respectively and the estimated endogenous intestinal losses were 40 +/- 20 mumol, 12 +/- 4 mumol and 3 +/- 1 mmol, respectively. In conclusion, the fractional absorption of zinc, copper and magnesium from the fibre-rich diet was not sufficient to cover intestinal and urinary losses of these elements, resulting in negative balances."
More....
"the issue of antinutrients in raw cereal grains is a very real issue. There are components in raw cereal grains which wreak absolute havoc with human health and well-being. The primary storage form of phosphorous in cereal grains is phytate, and phytates bind virtually all divalent ions, i.e., minerals for our purposes. Excessive consumption of whole-grain unleavened breads (50-60% of total calories) commonly results in rickets [Robertson 1981; Ewer 1950; Sly 1984; Ford 1972, 1977; MacAuliffe 1976; Hidiroglou 1980; Dagnelie 1990], retarded skeletal growth [Reinhold 1971; Halsted 1972; Sandstrom 1987; Golub 1996] including hypogonadal dwarfism, and iron-deficiency anemia (will provide the references upon request). The main lectin in wheat (wheat germ agglutinin) has catastrophic effects upon the gastrointestinal tract [Pusztai 1993a]. Additionally, the alkylrescorcinols of cereals influence prostanoid tone and induce a more inflammatory profile [Hengtrakul 1991], as well as depressing growth [Sedlet 1984].
Given the barriers to grain consumption that primitive hominids would have faced, who did not possess the more sophisticated technology only seen since about 15,000 years ago, optimal foraging theory, again, strongly suggests any consumption would have been at extremely minimal levels. Given also the lack of adaptation of the human gut to prevent the negative effects of their consumption which are only mitigated (and only partially) by such technology, it is extremely unlikely cereal grains were ever more than a very minute fraction of the human diet until very recent times."
http://www.beyondveg.com/cordain-l/grains-leg/grains-legumes-1a.shtml
Bethanial
Lovin' The Homestead
wow! thanks
kcsunshine
Almost Self-Reliant
Don't ask Wifezilla for links unless you really want them. She's a virtual library.
ohiogoatgirl
Lovin' The Homestead
interesting...
so what are ways that were used to prepare and cook grains that were healthy in those days? and (dare i ask
) do you have any links? i would love to grow some of those old strains and try out the recipes! i dont like that white sponge "stuff" they label as bread anyway! although dad is better then me, i like homemade bread.
so what are ways that were used to prepare and cook grains that were healthy in those days? and (dare i ask
) do you have any links? i would love to grow some of those old strains and try out the recipes! i dont like that white sponge "stuff" they label as bread anyway! although dad is better then me, i like homemade bread.
Wifezilla
Low-Carb Queen - RIP: 1963-2021
kc...LOL...you noticed?
Here is one more for good measure...
http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/497-be-kind-to-your-grains.html
OGG, here is a good link with preparation info.
http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/foods18.php
You can also see if your local library has a copy of NOURISHING TRADITIONS. Best book EVAH!
Flossy, when you make sprouted grain bread, you have to sprout it, dry the sprouts, THEN grind. This site has a post on sprouting and drying sprouted grains... http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/12/sprouting-grains-2.html
Here is one more for good measure...
http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/497-be-kind-to-your-grains.html
OGG, here is a good link with preparation info.
http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/foods18.php
You can also see if your local library has a copy of NOURISHING TRADITIONS. Best book EVAH!
Flossy, when you make sprouted grain bread, you have to sprout it, dry the sprouts, THEN grind. This site has a post on sprouting and drying sprouted grains... http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/12/sprouting-grains-2.html
Thanks wife, I wondered if it was something like that. My Mum used to grind our wheat for our sourdough pita breads that we had for sandwhiches when i was a kid, and all I could imagine was soaked soggy wheat coming out like sausage meat!!! But what you said makes much more sense
kcsunshine
Almost Self-Reliant
Yuk! 
Wifezilla
Low-Carb Queen - RIP: 1963-2021
Flossy, I had an old Rodale book in 70's that had a sprouted grain bread recipe that LEFT OUT THE DRYING STEP. The resulting bread was nasty looking and tasted like old gym socks
It wasn't until I started reading through the Weston Price website that I saw the whole process CORRECTLY spelled out! LOL Since I have a wheat intolerance, I haven't been brave enough to try it yet. Not sure if my issue is all wheat or just modern wheat. I may get brave and try it some day.
Freemotion makes sprouted grain bread though. She is also a Weston Price fan.
It wasn't until I started reading through the Weston Price website that I saw the whole process CORRECTLY spelled out! LOL Since I have a wheat intolerance, I haven't been brave enough to try it yet. Not sure if my issue is all wheat or just modern wheat. I may get brave and try it some day.
Freemotion makes sprouted grain bread though. She is also a Weston Price fan.
